Dr. Daniel Pauly, a renowned expert on marine ecosystems and Professor & Director of the Fisheries Center at University of British Columbia, was Thursday at the Residence Palace Hotel in Brussels, at a press conference organized by Oceana, to express his views, discuss about the European Common Fisheries Policy and the state of the fish stocks around the world.

In this exclusive interview with Atuna.com, he gives his views about tuna fisheries, Regional Fisheries Management Organizations (RFMOs), Fishing Aggregating Devices (FADs) and reinforces the idea of governments taking actions to stop tuna stock depletion.

Atuna.com: How would you evaluate the sustainability of tuna fisheries nowadays?

Dr. Pauly: They are not sustainable. The fishing quotas are too high; catches surpass the quotas, especially in what comes to Bluefin tuna. The statistics on the Indian and Pacific Ocean are not transparent and the FADs are a huge problem all over the world. So, many problems still.

Atuna.com: Do you believe that the RFMOs are doing a good job on tuna conservation?

Dr. Pauly:  No, they are not. Essentially the RFMOs failed in that control because they don’t have the power to enforce conservation measures. Nations can still choose not to abide to their regulations, which affect directly their efficiency.

Atuna.com: Are subsidies also a problem in tuna conservation?

Dr. Pauly: Yes. I don’t have the exact data for the tuna business, but when a country starts to export a lot of a product, usually the governments give them more and more support, and that could be done in many ways, like providing cheap fuel for the tuna vessels.

Dr. Pauly’s speech in Brussels focused on the harmful consequence of subsidies for fishing companies. According to him, this practice of subsidies should be forbidden since it keeps the profits high, even though the catches and stocks are getting less every year. He believes that, by financially helping the fishing industry, the search for better catches will keep happening indefinitely.

Atuna.com: How would the harvest control-rule work for tuna biomass? (The harvest control-rule was explained by Dr. Pauly in Brussels as a catching quota over the species’ biomass. That would be regulated exclusively by scientists, with no governmental participation).

Dr. Pauly: It’s hard for me to give you a percentage of the fishing quota per each species, but you can say that the longer the lifecycle of the fish is; the lower the quota should be. If a fish has a very fast reproductive life, like Skipjack, you can consider catching something like 20% of its biomass, so that it will still be able to recover. But those numbers are not precise yet; however, it’s viable to predict them through scientific research.

Atuna.com: in your interview for the Dutch Newspaper “Volkskrant” you said that 90% of the big fish was gone. How do you relate it to tuna?

Dr. Pauly: That was a conservative figure about fish in general. In scientific reports it is clear that many species biomasses are disappearing. Actually, comparing the size of the fishes today, that number could be much higher.

Atuna.com: And how is the catching of adult tuna, the big fish, affecting the composition of tuna biomass in terms of size and species?

Dr. Pauly: An exploited population of fish would display more small fishes, and in an unexploited population there’s a balance necessary for the natural development of the species. This means that if you fish too hard, you will remove the reproductive mature stock and lose the ability to recover its population. Moreover, tuna is a cannibal species and if small fishes start using one another as food, soon we won’t have any fish.

Atuna.com: The scientific reports show that in some oceans the catching amount of tuna is dropping year by year. Do you think the lack of resources will motivate the tuna industry to reduce its fishing efforts?

Dr. Pauly: No, they won’t do that. The decline of a resource will make them fish harder to maintain their profit level, and also, ask for more subsidies. The lack of resources doesn’t lead to restriction; it has never been in history. Humans collecting behavior is irrational and we tend to not think about tomorrow.

Atuna.com: Should there be a change in catching methods? / What methods do you suggest?

Dr. Pauly: Yes, but I have no methods to suggest. I strongly believe that we should slow down fishing. We have too many vessels in the ocean. For now, it’s better to try to repair the fisheries than trying to maintain the catches. In time, we will be fishing less so we can fish later.

Atuna.com: Would you have any advice for the tuna fishermen?

Dr. Pauly: Considering my views in tuna fisheries conservation, my advice wouldn’t be directed to them. The fishermen’s interests go against the public’s interests. They are always trying to improve their catches and my job is to tell them not to. I believe that without governments taking actions and setting rules, conservation won’t be achieved. You can’t ask individuals to voluntarily comply with tuna conservation because they won’t. Maybe I would have one advice for them: respect the law – and the law should be directed for tuna conservation.

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